Dialogues, Gilles Deleuze and Claire Parnet (1977)

8/10/2019 Dialogues, Gilles Deleuze and Claire Parnet (1977)

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DialoguesGILLES DEEUZE

andCLAIR PARET

Translated byHH OMNON

and

BB HBBJAM

ew York Clumi vst ss


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olumbla Uiverty:cw York

19 flrn, Ps

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Contents

Prface to Englh Lnguage dio by Glls Deleuze

Tanslatos' Introuco

I A Cei: W i ? W

V

X

e Spei f Ag-Ame Liee 36

Ded Pnli: Aale

Mn Poli

Ne 149dex


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Prace to the English Language Edition

I ave always fe hat I am an empiicis, tha s, a puais.

Bu wa doe his eqivalence beween empircism andpuaism mean? It devs om he two chaacteisics bywic Whiteead dened empiicism: the abstac does notexplan but mst tsel be expained; and te aim is no toedisve e eena o the unvesa bu to nd he conditions unde whc something new s pouce v).'n socaed aionais piosophies, he abstac is given hetask of xpaining and is the absac hat is alz in he

concee One stas wih abstacons such a he One, heWhoe he Sbjec, and one ks fo he poces by whichtey ae emid in a wod wich thy make confom ote eemens (this pocess an be knowedge vite,hiso Even t means ndegoing a eibe cisis eachime at one sees atonal niy o otaiy nng into theioppostes o te sbjec geneatng monstosies.

mpcsm sas wh a compeey dieen evaation

analysing the states of hings n suc a way that non-peeisten conceps can extacted om tem. Saes o hngsae nhe uniies no otaies b mp. I is not justat ee ae sevea saes of things each one of whc wodbe yt anohe) no that each stae o things s se mutipewc would simpy be to ndicate ts essance o uncation The essentia hng fom te pon o vew ofepism is te non mulplV wic designaes a set o

nes o dmensions wich ae iedcibe to one anthee 'ng s made p n tis way O cose a mutpicity


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Dag

cud cu uct ct tttn, pnt

ucttn u ct wc c pnt t gwd tp T c n t utpcty twc ty ng, nd t t n utpcty wtcun n t t t nt, ut wt t tw t wn, t tn wc n p c y utpcty w tdd, t d g t W cnntypp t t k tw cnc nd

tw y dnt wy nng A n d nt g n pt t nt u p twn pcy ucng d dgng k n Pcn

T xtc t ccpt wc cpnd t upcy t tc t wc t d up t d ntu n t w y c ngdcnct, uct, d t d c T

tu bmi wc dtnct nt y ut u ty n wc y dpd Mutpct d up cg wtu ty nddutnwtut uc ( wy n wc ct n dy, u t dy nddud) Tt tccpt xt ut uc n pc n,ut t cpy dt u nd cpy dntntu t ngutp ntd gn,

ngw ng uct pc undnyd t gc gc utpct ( wc n ny pct).

T (t pud nc n 1977) t ggt t tnc d ctn upc n dntd dy ud d tt t pcpt -pnc nd n utpc kn cct p, t pp d ttc, t n xtctd

uy But ctty c n t c nutc uccu wc py w ttc (d n Mn n pt ct t


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x Dogu

a ay valu ss a t rs grg

mnss f t mltplcty, accrg t bcmgs ch arutal uals, sc ty cul mms n t chang uatayAs camss sur at cam rm a cam rm hr rn rm sm ls, ul cm clarr abuWhat s t rt?' hs ar ls hc ul rsn a hr lk t sutrraa sts f a m asps t uy f h r a ts ary lgc hs

raly as a k thut sujct, hut gg r u t tu ml crrspg t Mlr's pras grass grs bt . s a rlg a lss mralty .'

G Duz, 19


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Translators' Introduction

Dialogs was ommissiond as a onvnional k of int-

viws in a srs of h sam nam whh inldd intiwswih writs sh as Roman Jakoson and oam ChomskHowv as lz sas in th prfa o his dtion, it snm la tha th inrviw' forma was inapppiat:hat th mhanism of qustion and answr' had h ofong him ino a stion n whih h had nohing o saWha was ndd was a oma n whih a diaogu' oak pa wthot a od, xal oding ng pad on

Dlzs thogh Th rs was a foma in whih ahhap s a dialg' onsisng o wo halvs whih nk andopa ogth n a mltipiit o was In h st haptth st half is sgnd lz and th sond hsintroor Clai Parnt In h oth hapts h havsar nsgnd and it s no long pss to xiat thndvdual ontruions

Th k s hrfor not an nviw o a onvsaon'

although has mnts o h It gows in man ditos whot an ovall oding pnipl To s 'strms it s h as wamahin h k as rhzomThr s no hiah of ro tn and anh amltip o inronnd shs going o in all diionsI i tho oh an xplanation and an xmpation on paism'.

Ts iaogus' a thmslvs oshoos o lus

m smnar at h Unvs of Vnnns wh Caiant was a gula paipan Ths tk pla v


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xu Daou

Teay mong, n a tny emnar m, hoked wth moke,

where only thoe who ave an hor eary wold in a eatDeleuze' poraton' woul norma an arngng withequen quetion and inerrupton Duion would rangeom Spnoza to me mi from Chinee metllurgy obiong, rom inguitics o gang waare The rhzomewol grow tinion wod poleate. It wa up to thepatpants to corret ot he uam by whih Deleuze wsraveing to aive a he magi ormla we alJ eek,

PURALSM=

MOSM, by paing hrogh al theduaim whh a the enemy, the aogether nesaenemy1 Thee proesse a een at work here

Thi k itsef gow om the mdde o he remakabeerie o works pcd by Deue and Fix Gattr inghe 1970: A-Odp (972), Kaa Twad a Mo L975),3


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Talato odio

a amlag' 7 T c wod a o an aciv and a

av a way of amig o aangg' a w a ng odng o aangmn' T imotan m mode cad om dicty. al mag i wod ood' b al tanaion loga' oo Dwad a aaton wc iggd aoni o wod o a at to langag a i mo de pae [awod]}'W aly dcidd o odwod' Ti ao t tan-ao ndndy adotd y Ban Mam

T nc wod oelle aly aatd a an' mica and alo cov ad m of ad' ong f dico wt oo D w co wod olo' mo aoa Engl dg T bk mak fqt of comond of t vdeve c a deeemme o deeiaimal T i noof omtg wc com woman' w ing woman i l of comng b a o a woman b-

comng wtt bc o ojc W av o anatd c comond a fo xaml womancomng'.Ti old ot b id a imyg ta omting, oxaml woman', i coming' oo l a o-vdd a nw oot fo ti anaon to lan of m cciy' W av ovdd om f x-anaon taato' foono wc a dicad by anai *

W wold li o a al o wo av gv advcad aac, incdng Ma Jogin, al aton and naca ob Gata Caoi Davdon and icadWlam no only d and coagd ad o anag oc a comoaby co a.

H TomoBabaa Habbeam


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1A Converation: What i it?

What i it Fo?

i v ad to lain n an niw a dalog acnvaion Mt o t m wn omn k m aton vn n wc la o m I ta ticl Idn't av anng a. Qton a invntd k an-ng I an' allowd to nvnt o qion wimnt m all v ac fm nv mnd w i ' m to o avn' mc to a. T a o

cncing a obm i v imotan nvn a o-lm a obmotin, b indng a olton on an in an intviw a convain a dconvn cin, wt ' alon o btwn tw m, no ng bv al no ctn Ojcin a vnw Ev m mon an ojcin t m wan ta: OK O l' go on o omtng l' Obcin avnv contid anng I' am wn I am akd a

na qton aim n t anw qton i' to t gt f t. Man o nk ta t i n bgng back v t qton ta t oib to gt of it\a in w il I dad w gngnd it' ' v ing T wn t tng qin n d o g o f t Bt gting nvan k a Movmn awa an nd tnk' ack n mmn wn bnk Gng o

aad acvd, i nv wi b Qin ana amd a a ft a a T f wmn,t f t volton ft f l tc Bt


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2 ues

duing his me, while you turn i circles amog these

quesons ee are becomigs wic are seny a wokwic are almos impercepible. We nk oo mu temsof hsoy weer persona o unversal Becomigs eog ogeogapy ey ae orieaos direions, eries ad exisThee is a woma-ecoming wc is o e same as womeeir pas ad e fuure and i s essenial a wome eers becomig o ge ou of e pas ad eir uure, heirhisory ere is a revoluoarybecomg wc is not e

same as e future of e revouo and whch does oecessaily appen roug he mats Tee is apilosopyeomng wc as ong o do wi eisoy o piosophy and wc happes houg ose wome soy of posopy does o maage o classify.

To ecome s ee to imae o o 'do like, or oconfom o a mel wee its of jusce or of tut here sno emus om wic you se ou oe wic you arive a

o wic you oug to aive a Nor ae ee wo temswhc ae ecanged The uestio Wa ae you ecoming?s pacuay supid For as someone eomes wha e secomng canges as much as he does himse eomings aeno pheomea of imiaon o assmilaion, u of a doublecapue o nonparallel evoluo of nupials beween woegns upas are always agas naue Nupials are heopposie of a couple There ae o loge binay macies:

uesonaswe masculiemne maamal ec Thiscould be wa a covesaio s smpy e oune of aeomig Te wasp and e orcid povide e eample Teorcd seems o form a wasp mage bu i act here is awaspbecomig of e ocd an orcdbecoming of ewasp, a double capure snce wa eac becomes cages oess an ha wic becomes The wasp ecomes part of eorcids reproducve apparaus a te same me as eorcid becomes e sexua oga o e wasp Oe ad esame becoming a snge bloc o becoming, or, as RmyChauvi says a aparale evouon of wo eigs wo ave


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A Conersaion a i? a i for 3

nothing whasoever to do with oe anothe'. Thee ae

nimal-beomngs of man whih do o osist i payig helog or he a, se ma and he animal only mee o heectoy of a ommo b asymmetra deetoializaion is like Mozats brds: i this musi hee s abdbeomin bt aught i a msibeoming of he bidhe wo formng a snge eomig a sngle bo a aparalelevoluon ot a exhage bt a odene wth o possible inteouto as a ommetato o ozar says; in shot

a covesaionBeois hey ae the thing whih is the mos im

prepble hey ae as whh an oy be otained in a lifead expessed a syle Syles ae no onsons anymoe than ae mes of ife I stye i is no he wods whhont o he sentenes no the rhyhms ad gues n life tis ot he stoies no he pnipes nor the onseqenesYo an aways epae oe wod with anothe If yo dont

e ha one i does sui yo tae anoher p anoher is plae. eah one of s makes this eot eeone andestand one anohe ad hee is saey ay reason toas quesions o o raise objeions Thee a o teral wodseiher are thee metaphors {al metaphors are sed wordso else make hem so) There are oly inexat words o desinate something exay Le s reate exaordinar wordso ondition hat hey e pt to the most odinay use ad

hat he ey hey designate e made o eist n he same wayas he mos ommon obje Today we have a or disposae ways of readng ad pehaps of witng hee ae ones hch a bad and roten For exampe we get the eeng thasme bs are witen or he evew ha a jornalist wilhe o prde so hat here is o onger eve any need fo ae t only fo empty words (o must read tha! I'seat Go on! ol see o avoid eadg he ook ad

ptng he aie togeher But he g ways of eadgday seed i reaig a k as you wold reat a eody lse to a m or a TV progamme you wath ay


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4 Dialog

reament of he o which caims or i a specal respect- an

aenon o anothe nd - omes rom anohe era and deiniivey ndemns the k. There's no queson of dcuyo undersanding: conceps are exacy ike sounds oos oimag, hey are inensiies whch s you or not, whch aeaccepabe or aren acceptabe Pop phosophy heresnohing o ndetand, nothing o nterpe. I shoud ike tosay wha a sye is It eongs to peope of whom yo normaysay hey have no sye This s no a sgnying sucue

nor a reeced organizaion nor a sponneus nspiraonnor an orchesaion no a lle pece o music. I is anassembage an assembage o enuncaon A sye s managng o sammer n ones own angage. s dcu becase there has o be a need o such sammeing No being asammeer n ones speech, bt being a sammere o angageise Being ke a oreigne in ones own anguage. Consucing a ne of igh The most sikng eampes o meae Kaa Becke Gherm Lca and Gad GherasmLuc is a gea pe among he greaes: he invened a prodgous stammeing his own He gave pubc eadings of hispems in on o two hunded peope; and yet i was an eventan even beonging o no sch o movemen, which woudps hough hese wo hnded. hings neve pass where yohn nor aong he pahs yo hin

You can aways objec ha we are chsing favourabeeapes, Kaka he zech ew wring n Geman he IrshBecet witng Engish and Fench Lca o Ruananoigin, and even the Swiss Gard And so? his is no hepobem o any of hem We must be binga even n asnge angage we mus have a mno anguage nsde ourown angge we mus ceae a mnor se o o ownangage Mutiinguasm s no merely the propey osevea sysems each o whch would be homogenos n tse:t s pimary he ne of ght or of varaon which aectseach sysem by soppng i om beng homogneus Nospeking ike an Irshan or a Rumanian n a angage othe


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A Cvesa: W ? Wha 5

hn ons on, u on h ony spking n ons on

ngg lk foign Pous sys: G iu sn in so of foign ngug To h snn h mnng o ny mn img hh son msnslon u n g u ll o misnsons sul n uy 1 Ths is h go y o d llmisnsions good lys poidd h hy do noonss in inpions u o h us of h h hy muiply is us h hy y noh

ngg insd s ngug 'G iu is in in so of foign lngg Th s h dniion of sylH gn s qusion of boming. Pop ys hink of moin uu hn m gon up hn hpo Whs h pom s h of minoiinbcomng, no pnding no plyng o iming h hidh mdmn, h omn, h nim h smm o hogn, bu boming ll hs in od o inn n fos

o n ns is l h n lif h s so of dnss, dliy o hJh, fiy of onson, smmnghih s somons hm Chm is h so of lf s ssyl is h sou of iing s no you hsoy hosho h no hm h no l i s s hogh hy dd h hm s no h pson is h mks popl bgspd s so mny ombinons nd so mny uniquhns

om hih suh ombinion hs n dn I is ho of h di hh nssiy ns, sn i mshn siny nsad of dhing o ming hno duing i o poils Ths hough h fglonion of if is md h sngh nobsiny, n unqld psisn in h bing s sngho g hnks h fgil psonl if, n ninhh, h sm m s hy y f o h s obsou po o of'G h Ths no popl, uh gu of hi on ominion. Chm nd syl oods; shold nd ohs pl hm hm gis f


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6 Dialogues

nnpsna pwr, abv indvdals a th sm tm, syl

ivs wrin an na nd ] -which s bynd whatis win. And ths s th sam thin: win ds n hav ind n itsl pisly bcaus i is n smthin psnalh ny am [] wtin is l thh th cmbinainswhich t daws hs is th ppst nusis in whh lis cnstantly mutilatd dbasd, psnaid, mrtd, andn which wrtin taks s as is wn nd itzsch, thppsit th nutic v much av but wih ail

hah wi:t smms sms as thh th arts, and thphlsphr in patiula, is ny a chan n hs m na, which nv mas a ap, has mad ts n ap ncran thm and a ap y mvr, natu hns tha th s tim t has rahd its a -whr italiss t ha unan havin s and ha it has playdth am i and bcmn with t hih sas his

nwld transus natu and a n vnnwarinss that whih mn call bauy rpss pnits ac2

Whn yu w, y a ncssaily in absl sud Yucannt hav displs, r b pa a schl h nly wr ismnlihtin and s clandsn But i is an mlypplus sud. Ppulatd n with dams, phantasms r

plans, bu wih nnts. An nn s phaps th samhn as a bcmin, nuptials It is m th dpth thissltud tha yu can ma any ncntr whatsv. Ynunt ppl and smtms wthut nwin hm v havin sn thm) bu als mvmnts, das vnts,ntiis. All hs thins hav pp nams, bu th ppnam ds nt dsinat a psn a subjt t dsinatsan ct a ia, smthin whch passs happns b

twn w as thuh nd a pntial dnc th Cmptn t', th Klvn c. W said th sam hin abtbcmns: it is n n tm which bms h th, b


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Cai: a i i? a i i for? 7

a eoers e othe a sie eoi wi s ot

oo o te two se they hae oti to d9 with oee but whi is betwee he wo, wih as ts owdreto, a lo of beoi a aparael eouio Ths ist te dobe aptue the wasp AND the ohid: ot eesti wi wod be i the oe, o soethi whihwoud e te oer ee f t ad to be exaed, eiled, bt soethi whih s etwee e wo otside tetwo ad wh ows i aoher deto To eoute s to

d, to aptue, o stea bt thee is o ethod for dter tha a o pepaato Steali s he opposte ofplaaizi opyi iati, or doi e. Capure salways a doule-apue, theft a douleeft ad t is thatwi reates ot soet utua u a asyeiablo a apaale eotio, uptals aways otsde' adbetwee' So tis s what t would , a oersao

Yes, I a a ef of ots

o, I pray a seaer of sols ae ui a' ebltupo wa s watfo e sad o the eaesaes ay asteso wa has bee opeedbefoe y tiea word a te a soy a e

ey the wd uloc y ida tat y ose thos akyad ait is ot of e sit a podewoderi' a' wasi' tet' of thot that haet ee thuti o deas ta hae' bee dreaa' w deas at ae bee wroe w wods i to hye (. ]

a ot t'wory aou he ew uleso they ait bee ade ye


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an' shou my singin mnd

knowin' that t is me an' my kindthat will make tose rules .if the people of tomorowreally need he rles of tayrally 'rond al yo prsecun atorneyshe world is but a cormyesu I know he defendans beter n yo

and whie you're busy prosectin'were busy whistlin'cleanin' up the courtroomsweepn sweepnlisten' stenin'winUn t'one anothercareul

ref

your spot s min up sn3How prod and wonderfl - also modes is this Bo Dylanem. I says t al As a eacher should like o ale to vea course as Dylan organizes a ng, as astonishing producerrather than author And a i shold begin a he doessddenly wih his clown's mask, wh a technique of contriving, and ye mprvising each detai The oppose of apaarist, bu also the opposite o a master or a model vey

lenhy preparation, ye no meth nor rules nor recpes.Nupias wthot couples or conjugality Having a ba nowhich I pu everythin I enconer provided ha I am alsopu in a ba Findin, enconerng seain insead of reulatng recogniin and udging or reconiin is theopposite of the enconer Judging is he professon of manypeople, and is no a d professon s aso he use towhch many people pt wrin Beter o be a roadsweeper

han a ude he more one has been led n ones life hemore one gives essons: no one is as as a Sainist n


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0 Daogu

o alas sts o at g ags, a sort of

atv ad atv n ogt AN . AN AN Yo sod not t to d tr a da s st o ortYo sod o r a omtl d!rt da sr nanot aa so at somtg asss n to s r o o t otr No o dos ot grad s da ao; a an s dd o s somon gvso o Yo do av to arnd to o or b amlart a parar aa t 9 p s or at aras ar vr drnt s s ttr tan tp' It sratr a m or 4 - n t dtona =olg , a rstatng o t motor gtg o o tavg; ad t sal onoaton of t ordBrrogs t s s a mtod of poats -at lastgst os - and not a rodr of dang ots or asg a oms t trognos mso am am trg to xla tat tgs o, armad o v vard ns ad tat t do o ssao l t ar o or t sod ma t t a rang ass; sor r s a ogograp n pop rgd s, spp ns s gt I s m fnd anPr o ans o m noto t somtng ls, ta a mota aa mpls a l t o sots of oatons ar appart sm t at oomsts an ma ts passanr, so ta t av' t sgts da r oma t pass s s a or t t om? Wt

aPr t a d t a ord, t a gs? aasord s a t an Hr das aas sd mrom d, omg fom ar aa n aot drto sotat ossd all t mor l t sgas rom to lamsn r o or, s am on ars poms aottoross do ot o atng aot tortoss ad tatags vtg fo amaomngs t s ot lar tata ama atsovr s agt p ts omgs; at


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A Conversatin: What i? al s t fr I

ut ortoses graes? Lawene says: f am a grae

1d the nglsh peope who wte abot me ar wetranedds, nohng works any more, the anmas ar o deeno say at you lke me, but beeve me yu dont lke me,u nstnctvely eest he anma tha am' enemes;\C dgs But what precsely s an encoune wth somone e s t an encuner wth somone r wh he anmash come o poplae you, o wth the eas whch tae youve he movements whch move you, the sunds whch run

ugh yo An hw d you separate hese hngs canal f Foucaul el yo at he has sad hs or ha me se out see t. Ths s nhng as ng as have nt been ablereay to enune ths set of souns hammered u of desve gesres of eas al mae f ner an re of deepatenon an sudden lsre f lagher an sles whchne feels to be angerus at the ve momen when ne feelsendeness ths se as a nqe ombnan whse pope

name wou be Foualt A man wthout refeenes saysFranos Ewal the nst mpmen . JeanPere enly fren wm have neve left and wh has never eftme . An Jerome ha shoete aways wang movngpeneated he cre wh fe an whose geneosy ove,was nushed at a secret source JOAH n each of usthee s as were, an ascess, n par turne aganst orsevese a desers but populate by trbes, ora an fauna We

pass ot tme n oderng hese rbes arangng hem n therways gettng rd f sme and enuragng othes o prosper.nd al these lans al hese owds, d not ndermne hedesert wh s ur very asess; n the ontrary they nhabtt, e pass hrugh t, over n Guatar there has alwaysbeen a sr f wd ro n part reced aganst hmse heet emenan on onesef, s our only deny, osnge chane fr al he combnaons whh nhabt s henW

Documents

Dialogues, Gilles Deleuze and Claire Parnet (1977)