021 08?’5 IDENTIFICATION : 0144 C.7/K95 08112193 QUALITE

~-’. 021 08?’5

IDENTIFICATION : 0144 C.7/K95 08112193

DUREE : 60 MIN.

QUALITE : BONNE

TRANSMISSION : RTLM

DATE DE TRANSCRIPTION : 01/09/2001

NOM DU TRANSCRIPTEUR :

NOM DU FICHIER

ICYITEGETSE Drocella

0144.doc

DICTAPHONE SANYOModèle : TRC-8080N° de série : P9407754 F

Cassette N° 0,144 transcrite par I.D.

~’:0~:| 0876

_RÉSUMÉ DE LA CASSETTE N° 0,,,144

FACE A: * Reportage de HABIMANA Kantano, journaliste de la RTLM sur les cérémoniesde funérailles du Président Mélchior NDADAYE.

* Commentaires de GAHIGI Gaspard sur:- la conférence de Mgr CIPENDA à l’Hôtel des Diplomates.- les débâts au Conseil du Gouvemernent à propos des allocations

d’encouragement à attribuer aux responsables de cellule.

* Analyse de Kantano HABIMANA sur la situation sécuritaire au Burundi, leproblème ethnique et les dissensions entre les partis politiques.

Cassette N° 0144 transcrite par I.D,

~,’021 0877

Orateur: Kantano HABIMANA

FACE A

¯ .. (inaudible) RTLM ee ngo "hanyuma" ngo "arebe na Televiziyo gusa" ariko nyuma tumubwiye

ko ejo azatwakira, ariko aravuga ati "hein, mwa Banyarwanda mwe, sinakoze coup d’Etat

nk’uko mubizi mu Rwanda", ati "jyewe nzabasobanurira". Ubwo rero dutegereje ibisobanuro

azaduha ejo, ariko GAHIGI ikibazo cy’amoko hano kiragaragara cyane ha hano mu Ihoteli ee,

imodoka ya Radiyo Rwanda mu kanya twajemo ba... bashatse kuyimena ngo ni yo yateye

amahane hanyuma...

Orateur: Gaspard GAHIGI

Imenwa ... imenwa na bande?


Imenwa n’abantu nyine bakubita agatoki ku kandi ... ce ako kanya na none...


Abantu se ko uri umunyamakuru watubwîye abo ad bo.

Orateur: Kantano

(aseka) Abantu ntabwo...(aseka), ni abantu, ni abantu.

Orateur:

Yee.

Gaspard GAHIGI


Natwe ubu twayihishe ubu ngubu ...


Ubwo ntushatse kubavuga.


Yee, nyuma kandi na none abadepite bagombaga kunyura mu Kaya... ee bagombaga kunyura

umuhanda wo mu Kayanza ha bo ntibashoboye kuza kubera ko... batubwiye ko mu Kayanza nta

Cassette N° 0144 transcrite par I.D.

mutekano, abantu ngo bagomba kuba bafunze umuhanda, ce ubu rero umutekano nukomeza

n’ejo yenda hari ubwo twe tuzabura aho tunyura, icyakora.., bamwe ba... baje n’indege.


Yee, Kantano rero nagira ngo nkubaze kuko ndabona igihe cyihuta ...

Orateur:

Yee.

Kantano HABIMANA


muri iyo mihango, abasirikare hari abasirikare wahabonye? Bari bifashe bate? Ee abari muri

ka gatsiko bavuga, bahahingutse? Byari bimeze bite ku byerekeye abasirikare kuko ...

Orateur:

Bon.

Kantano HABIMANA

Orateur: Gspard GAHIGI

ni bo bakoze coup d’Etat?


Yee. Ku byerekeye abasirikare ee BUYOYA, yee yari ahari, Majoro BUYOYA yari ahari

n’umukenye.., n’umugore we, BAGAZA na we yahanyuze mu Kiliziya, ce ariko ntabwo yaje

muri réception, hanyuma rero uwadutangaje, waduteye amatsiko ni BIKOMAGU, BIKOMAGU

yazanye igipfunyika cy’indabyo nyinshi ee kuko ari nka...we Chef d’Etat-Major wa... wa armée,

agifatanyije icyo kizi.., icyo kiziga cy’indabyo na chef d’Etat-major wa Gendarmerie ee noneho

baza badefila nuko abantu bakajya baryana inzara bati "nguwo BIKOMAGU, nguwo

BIKOMAGU ..."


Bari bambaye gisirikare se?


Yee, bari bambaye gisirikare rwose n’amapeti yabo.


Orateur:

Hum.

Gaspard GAHIGI:

Orateur:

Ee.Kantano HABIMANA:


Ubu se hari akajambo k’agashinguracumu wabwira abumva RTLM?


Bon, agashi... (aseka) akajambo k’agashinguracumu ni uko.., mbese.., ubu ngubu ee cyane cyane

twari dufite amatsiko y’umuntu witwa BIKOMAGU, none aVuze yuko ejo mu gitondo saa mo...

ee saa moya n’igice azatwakirira mu kigo cy’abasirikare, ee mud Camp Muha, aho ha... biciye

Perezida NDADAYE, ubwo tuzamubaza ibibazo byinshi ku buryo ejo nimugoroba ningira

amahirwe nkaza ee nzabibagezaho.., ku buryo burambuye, ndetse n’ubu ntabwo mbibagejejeho

cyane kubera.., ibibazo byo kwihuta.


Ubwo rero turagutegereje Kantano, uzagire urugendo rwiza ugaruka hano mu Rwanda no kuri

RTLM.


Ee, abumva Radiyo RTLM mugire umugoroba mwiza hanyuma n’abakozi ba RTLM mugire

umugoroba mwiza.

Orateur:

Urakoze.

Gaspard GAHIGI

Orateur:

Uramuke.Kantano HABIMANA

Orateur:

Muramuke.

Gaspard GAHIGI

...mva ubu dufite saa mbiri n’iminota mirongo itanu n’umwe muri studios zacu, hari rero

ikiganiro mbwirwaruhame eyaraye kibereye hano i Kigali muri Hôtel des Diplomates, noneho


haza kuvugirwamo ijambo njye ku ti... ku giti cyanjye numva ryanyuze, ijambo ryavuzwe na

Monseigneur Cipenda wo muri Angola, aravuga ati "birya bintu mubona abantu bishyira hamwe

ngo bakoze inama, ngo bakoze arnasezerano ngo bagabanye ubutegetsi" ati "muri Mozarnbique,

muri Angola ...", njye nkongeraho Arusha, ati "ntabwo ibyo ari byo demukarasi". Kuko koko

demukarasi uko babivuga, bavuga ko demukarasi ari ubmegetsi butangwa n’abaturage,

bugakorera abaturage. Iyo rero abantu bishyize hamwe, bati "tugende twicare ahantu tugabane

ubutegetsi, ibyo ntabwo ail byo demukamsi, kuko niba demukarasi ari ubutegetsi butangwa

n’abaturage, abo bantu twumva baba batatumwe n’abaturage.

Iyo rero bavuga bati "hari ibibazo bidasanzwc reka tugabane ubwo butegetsi turangize icyo

kibazo cyihutirwe, noneho ubutcgetsi tubusubize nyirabwo, nyirabwo akaba ari rubanda. Ntabwo

rero ari ko bikunze kugenda, kuko abantu bafashe ubutegetsi kuri Ubwo buryo ntibakunda

kurekura. Ntabwo bakunda kuburekura ngo babusubize ba nyirabwo, cyane cyane ko ba

nyirabwo kenshi baba badafite ingufu, ingufu barazifite, ariko ntibazi uko bazikoresha kugira

ngo babubarnbure. Akaba ari cyo gituma rero iyo mwtunvise ngo abantu ba... bicaye bagabanya

ubutegetsi, kenshi ngo babyise Inzibacyuho, usanga buri gihe iyo Nzibacyuho bashaka kuyagura.

Ugasanga ari ikibazo gikomeye cyane, ugasanga ari ikibazo gikomeye cyane duhereye ku

by’Arusha, abantu.., baravuze bati "dore FPR irateye ishaka ubutegetsi, hari abatavuga rurnwe

n~ ubutegetsl mu Rwanda na bo ... abo bita "opposition" na bo babushaka, hari n’abari babùfite,

bati "reka twicare tugabane". Baricara baragabana, bati "ngiyi Inzibacyuho" Bati "ngiyi

Inzibacyuho -a-u "y g ye . Ugasa... ukibaza uti rubanda ruzahabwa ubutegetsi bwabo ryari ngo abcari bwo bubutanga? Ugasanga ni ikibazo!

Kubera rero ko ibyo bintu byavuzwe Umusenyen, nkumva nagira icyo mvuga ku byerekeye een’uruham rwa Kiliziya mu byerekeye kuzana demukarasi muri Afurika yacu, kuko tubona Kiliziya

ha yo ifite uruhare muri ibi bintu biba muri iki gihe, ibyo ngibyo by’abantu baza bagashimuta

ubutegetsi bakabugumana, kandi Kiliziya yaravuze ko ihagarariye yi... i...hora buri gihe iri ku

ruhande rw’a...bantu badafite imbaraga, rwa mbanda nyamwinshi, rwa rubanda batifiti, ko rero

igomba kubarengera, ko igomba gukora icyo bita "justice sociale".

Tukumva rero Kiliziya gatulika n’i... Kiliziya gatulika, Kiliziya y’Abaporoso, Kiliziya zose zifite

uruhare rukomeye mu gushaka ko ibihugu byategekwa neza, bikagira demukarasi, kuko ngira

ngo abapadiri ee n’abapastoro n’abandi bose bihaye Imana ntabwo bashinzwe roho gusa,

bashinzwe n’umubiri w’abantu, bashinzwe ha "justice sociale", ni ko babyise ubwabo, bagomba

rero gufasha abaturage kugira ngo basubirane ubutegetsi bwabo babuhe uwo bashaka.


¯ ~ . , .~:- . ........

Sinzi niba muzi ibintu bita iperereza, ee byaragaragaye ko ee Vatikani, Vatikani ni... Kiliziya

gatulika, ni yo ifite iperereza rya mbere nkurikije uko mbyumva mu mateka y’iperereza,

Vatikani ni yo ishobora kuba ifite iperereza rya mbere ku isi, kurusha ndetse ha ririya

’Ary banyamerika bita CIA, ndetse na FBI iwabo ubwaho na KGB y Abaruslya harnbere,

n’i ’ ’ "Y Abafaransa DGC na za MOSSAD z’Abayisiraheli. Bavuga ko rero Vatikani ari yo ifite

iperereza rya mbere, bigaterwa n’uko kenshi, nta watinya kubivuga, ee abapadiri baba bazi

abantu abo ari bo bose, baba babazi ee abaturage barabababwira n’abategetsi ubwabo

bakabivuga, abo bantu rero ha... baka.., baba bazi ndetse iperereza ryabo rikamanuka eyane,

amaperereza menshi akunze gukora mu mijyi no mu midugudu na he, ariko iperereza rya za

Kiliziya, navuze Vatikani ariko na za Kiliziya zose urebye, ee i perereza ryabo rijya mu mijyi,

rikajya mu bategetsi rikagenda rikabaga n’amashami mu cyaro kugeza ku muturage uyu.., wa

rwimbi, ni ko navuga, baba bamuzi! Baba bazi rero u kuva ku mutegetsi kubeza ku muturage wo

mu eyaro, iki.., rwose eya.., kivuza ... kivuga inyoni n’i.., n’inyamaswa, abantu ba Kiliziya

baba bazi abo bantu bose, bazi ababi, bazi abeza, bazi abicanyi, bazi abagarnbanyi, bazi

abagome. Kiliziya rero ikaba igomba gufasha abaturage nyine kudashyira imbere abantu

b’ibisarnbo, kudashyira imbere abantu b’abagome, kudashyira imbere abantu b’abagambanyi.

Kiliziya rero koko niba yemera ko igomba kurengera umuntu udafite intege, ni ukuvuga ko

igomba no kumufasha kudashyira imbere abantu bazamara mbanda, abantu b’abicanyi, abantu

b’abagome, abantu b’abagambanyi. Tukumva rero Kiliziya ifite uruhare muri ibi biba byose,

ndetse koko tukaba twebwe twumva yafasha rubanda kugira ngo ibatize ingufu bambure

ubutegetsi abantu babwiha ku ngufu, bambure ubutegetsi abantu babushimuta bi... babyiyitira

rubanda, noneho bagatuma koko amatora aba, kandi bakigisha ha rubanda gushishoza, noneho

rubanda koko rukihitiramo abayobozi barukwiye, aho kugira ngo abantu bakomeze bashimute

ubutegetsi, kandi bategeke biyitirira rubanda, kandi rubanda urebye nta ruhare rufite muri ubwo

butegetsi.

Tukumva rero koko i...cyo kiganiro mbwirwaruhame eyabereye kuri Hôtel des Diplomates i

Kigali havuyemo imyanzuro twe dushima, tukumva rero Kiliziya idakwiye kujya yieeeekera ngo

abantu abash~mus~ ubutegets~ bakomeze ba...ryamire rubanda. Ahubwo Kiliziya yari ikwiyeb’ " "b’ "

koko kujya ku ruhande rw’abantu batifite, badafite intege, noneho ikabafasha bakitorera

abategetsi, kandi Kiliziya ntibigaragare ko na yo ... ngo "ukoma urusyo akoma n’ingasire" ngo

ubone hari aho ishaka kubogamira, ahubwo ikwiye gushaka ukuri, ntubone irahagurutse

irahagaze ngo ngo ni uko bavuze iki ngiki, ahubwo igahagurutswa n’ukuri kwa nyako,

igahagurutswa n’imibereho myiza y baturage, igahagurutswa n’uko hajyaho abategetsi’a

babereye rubanda, kandi bagashyirwaho na rubanda binyuze mu matora. Tukumva rero Kiliziya

Cassette N° 0144 transerite par I.D.

yakore uko ishoboye kugira ngo mu gihugu cyacu hagaruke umwuka mwiza, umwuka utagamije

kugaburira ab’inda nini, ahubwo umwuka ugamije ko rubanda rwasubirana ubutegetsi bwarwo

noneho rukabuha ee abo rushaka.

Ngira ngo bigeze no kuvuga kera, kera.., mu mateka ya Kiliziya bavuga ko abategetsi baba

bahagaradye Imana. Ni ukuvuga rero ko bagomba kugira umurava, ntabwo Imana ad igisambo.

Ubwo rero Kiliziya ifite uruhare rwo gushakira rubanda rudafite intege abategetsi nyine

bahagarariye Imana koko, abategetsi batad ibisambo, abategetsi batari abajura, abategetsi batad

abicanyi, noneho Kiliziya ikabigiramo uruhare, noneho koko abategetsi bagahagaradra Imana

nk’uko Kiliziya ibivuga. (un peu de musique)

... Inzibacyuho itugeze, muzi aho itugeze cyokora abashyira mu gaciro bazi ko igejeje igihugu

aharindimuka kuko abantu ntibagikora, abantu barasahura, abasahura si rubanda harasahura

abiyita abategetsi. Njye nemeza ko kugeza ubu rubanda badasahura, ahubwo hasahura abiyita ko

bahagarariye mu butegetsi. Abiyita ndetse ko ari abakozi bakuru cyangwa abakozi baciriritse ba

Leta ntabwo bagikora n’ujya ku kazi ni umuhango, aragenda aki.., ati "ni Inzibacyuho"

akigaxukira, iyo agize courage yo kujyayo kuko hari n’abatirirwa bajyayo rwose bakigumira mu

rugo. Hari n’abajyayo bakabima akazi kubera ibi by’amashyaka byateye, ngo "tugabanye

ubutegetsi" ngo "Ministeri ibaye iy’iri shyaka" ngo "iyi ibaye ifiyi (sic) shyaka", umukozi wari

urimo bati "wowe ubwo utad mu ishyaka ryacu" bati "iyic~ire ma kazi ubonye". Abakozi

babahindamo ubudehe, baba.., babahindamo akaduruvayo, ukaza ngo ni uko uri mu ishyaka n’iri

nta ngofero wambaye bakakwima amadosiye ukirirwa wicaye. Waba ugiye mu ishya.., mu...ri

Ministeri y’ishyaka ryawe uti "ni ishyaka ryanjye nta n’uzampa demande d’explication" uti...

ugasiga ikote ku ntebe ukigendera ntukore.

Ibintu rero birababaje cyane, birababaje cyane harakorwa amarorerwa muri iki gihe, harakorwa

amarorerwa abantu bati... "tugiye kubohoza ibishanga, tugiye kubohoza imihanda, tugiye gu..."

ukabona ikibanza gitanzwe aho kitagomba gutanga (sic) gutangwa, ukabona umuntu yubatse

inzu mu... muhanda, ukabona undi agize atya yubatse aho «tshatse, ibintu mbese byabaye

akaduruvayo, sinzi aho tuzabitangirira. Nkagira ngo rero mbamenyeshe ko nigeze kuvuga hano

ko ee nzababwira ibyerekeye indirimbo yitwa "Lettre au Directeur général", nkaba nshimira

umugabo witwa HAGUMA ukora muri MINITRANSCO uyinz~aniye mu mwanya, nkaba ndi

buyu.., ndi buyibumvishe ariko maze kubumvisha indirimbo y’umuturage, indirimbo

y’umuturage witwa NGIRABAGENZA Yohani Mariya Viyani wo muri Komine Rutare ...

... y’Inzibacyuho n’aho igejeje igihugu, ko abantu basahura, ko abantu batagikora, ko igihugu

kirimo kugwa mu rwobo rw’ubukene.


Hari umugabo rero witwa ee Franco, witwa Franco wiyise Luambo Makiadi igihe Zayire

yivugururiye, noneho uwo mugabo witwa Franco asa n’uwishyira mu mwanya w’abatumge

yandikira abategetsi b’Inzibacyuho, yandikira D... iyi baruwa Diregiteri Jenerali, ati "dore

Diregiteri Jenerali uri umuntu" ati "kandi ukiri umunyeshuri ni wowe wavugaga ko uzaza

ugahindura ibintu, uhinda budege", ati "none ugeze ku ntebe y bu&reglten jenerali wibagiwe~’U ° ¯

°

amatwara watangiranye, wibagiwe ... dore amadosiye arakugera mu mutwe, dore.., ura...

urahunyaguza, urasinzirira mu biro kubera ko uba waraye ugenda amajoro ngo ushaka ibyana"

ati "ibyo bintu rero Diregiteri Jenerali" ati "ihene mr,; -,,,,--’-:,--,-- --, . ’

myiza, none dore aho ... uko ucunga ibya rubanda"."" ,,,,,,~,,,r,~u~o ~yawe, watanglranye imigambi

Iyo ndirimbo rero ndayibumvisha mu mwanya, wenda nze kugira icyo nongera kuyivugaho,

ariko ndumva atari na ngombwa, ni ilingala ryumvikana, n’utaryumva harimo n’igifaransa

cyinshi, ashobora kwiyumvira amagambo y’igifaransa gusa, ariko rero uwo.., uwo mugabo

witwa Luambo Makiadi akaba asa n’umuntu wagiye mu mwanya w’abaturage, yandikira

ibaruwa ndende Diregiteri Jenerali amubwira ati "dore uko ucunga ibya rubanda, dore nta kazi

ugikora, dore amashuri wize apfuye ubusa, dore ahubwo aho guteza imbere rubanda urabasubiza

inyuma mu bukene".

Muri iki gihugu rero natwe dufite abantu bize dushobora kwandikira amadi.., ee ibaruwa

tukabita abadiregiteri jenerali, natwe tukabandikira ibaruwa tubabaza koko ibyo barimo gukorera

igihugu. Aba mbere twakwandikira ni abashinzwe gucunga umutungo wa Caisse d’Epargne y’u

Rwanda. Ejobundi bagira batya bati "Caisse d’Epargne irahombye, icyihutirwa nimusubize

abaturage amafaranga yabo". Icyo akaba ari ikintu cyiza koko. Ariko, abo bacunze Caisse

d’Epargne bose uwababaza ati mbese Caisse d’Epargne yahombejwe n’iki? Dore barize, dore ni

bo bashinzwe gucunga uwo mutungo. Byahombejwe n’iki? Bananijwe n’iki ko bize amashuri

bakaba bafite ubutegetsi n’ububasha bwo guhana byagenze bite kugira ngo iyi Caisse d’Epargne

ihombe?

Tumubaze rero noneho aba Inzlbacyuho, Caisse d’Epargne irahombye koko, warize, umuntub’ "wize arangwa no kureba kure, wigeze wibaza ahantu uzashyira abakozi ba Caisse d’Epargne?

Wigeze wibaza ahantu abo bakozi bazajya? Abo bakozi se ni bo bahombeje Caisse d’Epargne?

Kubanaga mu muhanda se, urumva bazagushimira ko wize gucunga umutungo utazi no gucunga

abantu? Tukumva rero ibyo ad ibintu ee bya.., byari bikwiye koko gutera isoni abantu bize muri

iki gihugu kugira ngo uvuge uti iki kirabaye ariko nturebe ingmaaka zacyo. Uti "ubwo ihombye

nimusubize abantu ama.., amafaranga nta ahan, Leta irayatanga. Bon arabonetse, abo bakozi1,1~

¯

Cassette NO 0144 transcrite par I.D.

10

se bo ko bakoze, hari abakozi bakoze neza muri Caisse d’Epargne, si bo bibye biragaraga hari

abakozi bakoranye umurava, ariko uti nkunaze hanze kandi atari bo urebye bacunze uwo

mutungo, ahubwo barakoraga akazi kabo n’umurava. Ibyo rero tukabona atari byo.

Kandi, ubwo ni ibaruwa twebwe twandikira Diregiteri Jenerali. turavuga abategetsi ba Caisse

d’Epargne n’abategetsi bose ndetse kuko ibyo bintu bivugirwa mu nama ya Guvednoma!

Guverinoma rero ihagarariye rubanda, dufite uburenganzira twebwe abaturage bwo kuyandikira

tuti mbese ko mwihutiye kuvuga ngo musheshe Caisse d’Epargne ko mtigeze twumva mwihutira

kwishyuza abarimo imyenda? Caisse d’Epargne mbibutse ko abayirimo imyenda bayirimo

miliyoni i... ubanza ari ma... magana cyenda, cyangwa (arimyoje) miliyoni ... non, ni ... ubanza

ari miliyoni cyenda n’ibihumbi magana inani ngira ngo, cyangwa ni miliyari i... imibare sinyifite

neza, mu mwanya ndaverifiya, mu mwanya ndaza kureba neza, ariko ubanza bishobora kuba

bigera ahubwo muri miliyari icyenda na miliyoni magana inarti! Abo bantu se ko nta wigeze

yihutira kubishyuza? Tukumva rero ce ibyo bintu atari byo, ahubwo wa mugani wa Luambo

Makiadi ce ibaruwa twakwandikira abo bategetsi, bakwiye kumva ko badacunga umutungo

neza, kandi ko bashinzwe gucunga umutungo igihe bize, bigiye rubanda bagomba rero gucunga

igihugu neza. Nkagira ngo mbumvishe iyo ndirimbo, iyo baruwa abaturage bandikiye abacunga

igihugu, cyane cyane abacunga igihugu mu Nzibacyuho njye mbatuye iyo ndirimbo. Ee Luambo

Makiadi yandikiye ba Diregiteri Jenerali, nuko ati "ba DG bokamata ngai mabe te moto abotami

na kombo ya DG azate". Hanyuma arongera ati "ba DG bosala po na intérêt ya mboka, po na

intérêt ... pas na intérêt ya bino moko".

Luambo rero akavuga ati "ba DG", nanjye ndasa n’u.., tubwire ab’Inzibacyuho navuze ko iyi

ndirimbo twayituye ab’Inzibacyuho. Ati "rero bategetsi b’Inzibacyuho, ntimubifate nabi,

ntimumfate nabi" ati "nta muntu ndumva wavutse yitwa Diregiteri Jenerali cyangwa yitwa

umutegetsi" ati "uba umutegetsi kugim ngo ukorere rubanda" ati "bakorere rero". Nuko muri iyo

baruwa Luambo akongera ati "ba Nyakubahwa Directeurs Généraux, ba Nyakubahwa bategetsi

b’Inzibacyuho" ati "mukore mukorera inyungu z’igihugu" ati "mudakorera inyungu zanyu

bwite". Ngiyo ngira ngo isomo, ngiryo isomo ngira ngo umuntu yavana muri iyo.., baruwa

Luambo yandikiye aba Directeurs Généraux ariko asa n’uwanditse mu izina ry’abaturage bose,

ati "ba Nyakubahwa ba Diregiteri Jenerali, mureke gukorera inda zanyu mukorere inyungu

z’igihugu". Ati "kandi nta muntu wavutse yitwa Diregiteri Jenerali" ati "umuntu bamugira

Diregiteri Jenerali kugira ngo akorere igihugu".

Umutegetsi rero koko aba umutegetsi kugira ngo ayobore abantu, ntabwo ari ukugira ngo

abayobye cyangwa asahure umutungo wabo. Ngiryo isomo twavana muri iyo ndirimbo, ibaruwa

Cassette Ne 0144 transerite par i.D.

Il

ndende Luambo yandikiye abayobozi, natwe RTLM tukaba tuyandikiye abayobozi

b’Inzibacyuho tugasa n’ubabwira tuti ngira ngo uwahosha akarekeraho gusahura rubanda,

noneho ibintu bigatunga kuko ubusahuzi bukabije mu Nzibacyuho ngira ngo wa mugani

n’abategetsi beza sinzi ko hari icyo bazasanga. (indirimbo yubahiriza igihugu).

...ne mwakurikiranaga iyo ndirimbo, nkabasuhuza ariko mbasaba kwitonda cyane cyane

abashaka kurushinga. Ntimuzajye rero mubona isha itamba ngo mwiruke, cyangwa ngo

nimubona abakobwa bafite ikimero mumere amababa, nkagim ngo rero mbasabe kwitonda kuko

ushobora guktmda umukobwa akundwa n’undi, akaba ari yo mpamvu mbatuye aka karirimbo ka

Franco, abashaka kurushinga mu mijyi mwitonde, kuko ushobora gukunda umuntu akundwa

n’undi cyangwa ukamukunda atagukunda.

... n’ibindi, ariko had n’ikibazo cy’abaselire gikomeye, ndetse n’ubu Inama ya Leta ikaba

yateranye irimo kucyiga, Inama ya Leta ubu irimo, kandi irimo kucyiga, abananiza bakaba

bakinaniza, ibintu bikaba ad uko bimeze, Inama ya Leta rero irimo kwiga ikibazo cy’abaselire,

ubwo turatega umwanzuro uri buvemo. Ariko twababwiye ko icyo kibazo cyateye rwaserera,

hakaba hari umu responsable de cellule witwa NTAWUTAGIRIPFA Yohani bakunze kwita

Congolais, akaba yaragiye ku isonga ry’abandi baselire abaza icyo kibazo cyabo. None muri uyu

mwanya rero Inama ya Leta irimo kwiga ikibazo cyabo, Congolais, NTAWUTAGIRIPFA bita

Congolais ati agenm banjye b abasehre ikibazo cyacu kirerekana ko abategetsi bamwe, ndetse"b " , ¯

n’abahagarariye amashyaka barwanira imyanya y’ubutegetsi batagamije kuzamura rubanda

rugufi, ahubwo ari ukurupyinagaza". Congolais ati "ariko se ishimwe ry’abaselire ribangamiye

uwuhe mutegetsi mu byo yahabwa? Congolais ati "icyakora icyo nasaba abaselire bagenzi

banjye ni uko bakwihangana ntibatererane rubanda nyamwinshi, bagakorera baka.., ba...

ntibatererane rubanda nyamwinshi bakorera, kuko bimaze kugaragara ko ibyo abo bategetsi

bakora baba babitegetswe n’umwanzi uzwi w’igihugu uhora atsemba rubanda nyamwi.

(interruption).


¯ .. nyuma gato baha.., bashyingura Nyakubahwa NDADAYE: Abatutsi ntabwo begereye ...

ntabwo begereye umuhanda, barebemga kure. Hanyuma noneho Abafrodebu bambaye udupira

twa NDADAYE ari bo ee two.., dushushanyijeho NDADAYE ad bo bari ku murongo aho ee

abasirikare banyuraga na ... baherekeje umurambo n’abanyacyubahiro mbese bari mu muhanda.

Umuntu rero akibaza ati ibyo bintu bizagan~ira hehe? Ibyo ad byo byose biragaragara yuko ee

a... hagati y’amoko ikibazo noneho cyabaye ikindi!

Cassette N° 0144 transcrite par i.D.

12

Nabajije rero abakozi bamwe ba Leta "ese mukora mute"? Barambwira bati "Abatutsi nijoro

barara bagenda, bakora amarondo, noneho ku manywa ntibashobora gukom kuko baba

basinziriye. Abahutu na bo barara mu bihuru cyangwa se bagahinduranya amazu ku buryo barara

nabi kandi muri iyi minsi bari bari no mu cyunamo ntibajyaga ku kazi". I Burundi rero bamaze

ukwezi kurenga nta kazi gahari.

Hagati aho rero havutse, birumvikana iteka iyo ahantu hatagira ubutegetsi ni ko ibintu bigenda,

havutse ibintu by’ibibandi bya kabutindi, by’ibyihebe byitwaza uburyo bwose, mu moko yose

kandi, ku buryo iyo uguye mu gatsiko k’Abatutsi b’ibyigomeke aho ngaho nyine uhasiga agatwe,

na none wagwa no mu Bahutu na none bigize za bapolisi, bigize iki, na none ugasanga na none

urahaguye. Ibyo rero icyo kintu cy’ububandi cyadutse i Bujumbura ni cyo kintu mbese urebye

iki gihe na cyo gihangayikishije abaturage kuko batazi neza muri abo babandi abo bad bo neza.

Ee, ubwo rero icyo kintu nyine ni ikintu gikomereye cyane abantu b’i Bujumbura.

Mu gittu’age rero, mu giturage ahantu twagiye tunyura urebye abaturage muri za Province ya

Kayanza ha hehe hose bi... basubiye ku mirimo, ee basubiye ku... ku mirimo yee imirimo

y’abaturage ni uguhinga, ariko rero hari impunzi z’Abatutsi ee nazibonye.., ahitwa.., nazibonye

hehe ra? Ee ntabwo nibuka neza, ntabwo mpabona neza, ariko u... urenze mu Kayanza hafi

y’ahantu bita ee mu Bugarama, aho rero hari impunzi z’Abatutsi zahungiye mu mashuri zirinzwe

n’abasirikare. Yee, ab’Abahutu a... birumvikana bo bahungiye hakurya y’Akanyaru. Ariko rero

iyo urebye urabona abaturage basurana, bagemurirana inzoga, ku buryo ubona mbese bitangiye

kumera neza. Ku muhanda na ho nta mazu yangiritse uretse ko ee abantu batangiye kugarukamo

buhoro buhoro bakibaza mbese uko ibintu bimeze. Muri make rero nguko uko umuntu abona ee

muri Bujumbura no mu giturage aho twanyuze bimeze. Mu kanya rero turagera noneho kwa

BIKOMAGU. (indirimbo)

Ubu ndimo ndabagezaho i... uko i Bujumbura bimeze, twari tuvuye rero kureba uko mu giturage

bimeze no mu mujyi i Bujumbara, nababwiye yuko i Bujumbura nk’uko Abanyarwanda nyine

bamera n’Abarundi ni ko bameze, iyo umuntu umubwiye uti makuru ki? Arakubwira ngo ni

meza, ariko wabireba neza ugasanga mu by’ukuri hari ikinti kieyihishe inyuma, cyane cyane

gikubitiraho ko n’ubutegetsi nta buhari noneho ugasanga ibintu bikomeye.

Ku byerekeye rero ubutegetsi mbere y’uko tugera kwa BIKOMAGU, ubutegetsi mu Burundi mu

by’ukuri bwarahungabanye cyane uhereye i Bujumbura. Abaministre bari muri ... abaministre


13

ntabwo bakorera muri za Ministeri zabo bakorera mu Ihoteli yitwa Club Tanganyika. Muri iyo

Hoteli rero barimo barinzwe n’Abafaransa. (petit moment de silence)

¯ .. iy’u Burundi rero, BIKOMAGU nyine wumve ukuntu urumu .... ari umunyamayeri, baragiye

ntibabegera, ariko inyuma ya Club Tanganyika hose bacukurarno imyobo, ku buryo iyo

Abafaransa bagiye ku... kurinda abaministri b’a.., b’aba.., b’Abarundi basigaye, abasirikare

b’Aba...mndi noneho baza kubar/ndira hamwe, ku buryo hari n’ubwato bw’intambara mu mazi,

ee ku buryo ure.., urebye rero nta wamenya niba abo Bafararîsa barinze Guverinoma, niba

Abafaransa barinzwe ahubwo na... na... n’abasirikare b’Abarundi, ahubwo nyine ni abantu

(aseka) ureba ukabona bail mu kaga.

Ku byerekeye ingabo z’amahanga rero muraza kumva BIKOMAGU abivuga, izo ngabo

ntazishyigikiye kuko we ngo ntiyumva icyo zakora, kenshi usanga yitabaza ngo Guverinoma,

ngo Guverinoma.

Na none rero ikibazo eya Guverinoma, Ministre w’Intebe aravuga ati "musohoke muri ... mujye

muri za Ministeri". Ariko mwumve aho akaga kari", mpereye nko ku rugero rwa Sylvestre

NTIBANTUNGANYA ubu wabaye Perezida wa FRODEBU a.i., , yasimbuye rero

Nyakwigendera Melikiyoro NDADAYE, ubu ni Ministre w’Ububanyi n Amahanga, ariko

mwibuke ko ubu Sylvestre NTIBANTUNGANYA bohereje abasirikare mirongo itanu

kumushaka, bageze iwe bamubuze bararira! Bararira, barasizora bati "ntibishoboka n’iyo

tumubona ahubwo abanti bose tukababura"! Murabyumva. Ubwo baragenda, bagarutse kureba

ko yagarutse, bamubuze ni bwo bishe umugore we n’undi muturanyi wari uhari uwo mu...

umugore wundi w’umuturanyi. Ubwo baragenda agahinda kabamaze.

Uwo rero Si... Sylestre NTIBANTUNGANYA n’ubwo agenda, n’ubwo agenda bwose, dore ko

ari Umuhutu uyu nguyu utana.., unamenya no mu mwijima, n’ubwo agenda bwose ariko afite

ubwoba, atari uko bakeka yuko yazanamamazwa akaba Perezida wa... wa Repubulika kuko ngo

abikwiriye cyane, ariko we afite ubwoba kuko abamutumye abo bantu kubica, ee nako kumwica

baraha.., baracyahari! Abaje kumuhiga baracyahari! Abamwiciye umugore nta n’umwe

urafatwa, ni na cyo gituma bashyingura imirambo yavuze ati "nawe mugore wanjye urabeho". Ni

nk’aho yavuze ati iyi mva, ee iyi sanduku ni jye uba uyigiyemo, ni jye uba winjiye aha, none

ndavuga wowe uragiye umbereye igitambo. Uwo muntu se mwumva yakora ate? Yashyitsa

umutima hamwe ad uko abamwiciye umugore amenye ko bafashwe, ad uko abamutumye kwica

umugore we ari uko bafashwe.


14

Nyuma rero Guverinoma na yo yacitsemo kabiri kuko ibintu bireba amoko, urabona ko Siliviya

KINIGI agenda agoragoreza ku bwoko bwe kuko na we atinya abasirikare, ibyo ad byo byose

n’ubwo ari basaza be ariko rero arabatinya kuko ee ni bo ba... urebye bafite ubutegetsi. Ee

hanyuma rero urumva ko agenda agerageza ku... ku ... ku moko nyine guhengama, guhengamira

ku bwoko bwe birumvikana, abandi na bo ntibamushire amakenga bati "abo basaza bawe kuki

utabafatamo ngo ubashyire mu buroko", noneho ibyo bavuze kandi ntawizera ko undi atabijyana

ku bandi, ku buryo nta byemezo byafatwa. Noneho rero ubutegetsi bwose bukagenda bushonga

bushonga ku buryo urebye kugira ngo buzafate ni ha Mana, ku buryo hari n’abavuga bati "ibyo

ari byo byose uwari wakoze iyi Guverinoma ni NDADAYE ni we wari umuhuza, none ubwo

atagihari ibyiza ni uko byose byasambuka, noneho tugakora ibindi bishyashya. Ibyo se

bishyashya byakorwa na ba nde ko ee ingabo zikiri uko zari zimeze, ko zikibafiteho ee ikintu

ey’igitugu?

Icyo kintu rero ni cyo ee ni eyo cy’i.., ey’ingorane, ariko na none muri Guverinoma na none hari

ikindi kibazo cya PALIPEHUTU, eya PALIPEHUTU kuko abantu nk’uko babyemera mu

Burundi baravuga bati "iyo PALIPEHUTU iza kwemerwa mu mategeko ntihemerwe

FRODEBU, PALIPEHUTU yari gufata amajwi ya FRODEBU". Ubu rero bakavuga bati "ee ee

ee noneho ubwo FRODEBU ihungabanye se, aho si wo mwanya noneho PALIPEHUTU igihe

kubona wo kuza noneho gufata imyanya eyangwa se no kuvuga iti ba rutemayeze bari

baradutwaye ibintu byacu, none hinga tuzemo". Ukumva rero na none ee ikibazo ey’Abahutu

n’Abatutsi kigiye ku ruhande i Burundi, hari ieyo kibazo na none ey’arnashyaka. Kuko abantu

baravuga bati "noneho abangaga PALIPEHUTU nibahindure Itegekonshinga, noneho

PALIPEHUTU na yo izemo. Bon, Aba FRODEBU na bo bari barnaze ku... (arimyoje) kubona

imbehe hafi, hein inda iri hose! Ibiri mu Rwanda n’i Burundi birahari! (Arimyoje) Na

bakumva na bo ibintu birabayobeye. Ugasanga rero icyo kintu na cyo, icyo kibazo na cyo

kirabahangayikisha. Kandi nk’uko navuganye ...

Fin de la face A


15~.~ 02I 08,.89

FACE B

(Non enregistrée)

Cassette N° 0144 transcrite par i.D.

Documents

021 08?’5 IDENTIFICATION : 0144 C.7/K95 08112193 QUALITE